I got hit on… it was creepy and even scary. Recently, there was some thought provoking convo over at Atchka about men who are creeps and what women, men and society can do to manage, cope and make things better… What happened Saturday night brought it all to the forefront of my mind.
It was after 9pm and I was working alone to close the Starbuckish cafe hours later. The phone rings. The person refuses to speak. They call back… and I am told by some guy that he is in the store all the time looking for me, but I am never there or I am on break and he wants to know if I want to go out. Some things about the whole experience scared the crap out of me. I immediately pulled out the husband card, because I had the feeling that a simple NO wouldn’t be enough and that explaining that I’m married would add some incentive to leave me alone. I was pretty rude about it. I was also shaken. I managed to blow-up a few lattes right after that call, because I was so shaken that I wasn’t (couldn’t?) pay attention to the expresso machine so the drinks were so overheated they just blew up. That was fun to clean up. What bothered me more was how scared I was…
You see, the call brought one particular guy to mind. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but he didn’t seem to get that I wasn’t into him. I was cheerful and friendly to him like I am to all customers (though I tend to be more reserved with men, so that it’s less likely that they will think I am flirting…) and he didn’t want to leave my work area. He went and sat down and I noticed him looking over at me a few times. I had to go out into the lobby area (where he was) to do some work, but I made a point of avoiding looking anywhere near him and when I did notice him looking at me I also made a point to not smile or do anything flirty at first… after 15 minutes or so of him not getting the point, whenever I noticed him looking at me I straight-up frowned and looked annoyed… I WAS annoyed.
When I got that call, I was rude, because I had a very strong feeling that it was that guy and I wanted to be uber-clear. There is something very scary about a person (but especially a man, when you’re a woman and not nearly as strong as men are) refuses to understand very loud body language that says NO – STOP IT! Maybe I should’ ve just walked up to his table to tell him to stop looking at me… stop trying to make eye contract…. stop trying to engage me… stop smiling at me in that creepy ass way.
What is sad is that I felt really guilty for taking harsh tone on the phone. But dang… calling a girl when she’s in a vunerable position in the middle of the night letting her know that you’ve been in and out of her place of business over and over before… that is just not cool. Seriously not cool. What’s even more sad is that this guy prolly has no idea how uncool this call was… or the staring behavior in the lobby – if it was the same guy.
I spoke to a coworker about the whole thing today and she agreed that it was creepy and scary even if it wasn’t the lobby guy who was staring at me. She said that if that happens ever agin to tell the manager and make sure I get an escort to the car when I leave the building. It is nice to be validated… rather than to straddle the fence of trying not to beat myself up for over-reacting or being a “bitch” for being stern to the guy in the lobby and the one on the phone… assuming they are not one and the same.
It is experiences like this that makes me want to completely trash any sexuality I may have, because I am sick of dealing with men who don’t understand NO in any of its forms. I feel like never being even polite to a man again… but that is just letting the jerks win… sigh… Today was my first day back at work since that call and it was difficult. How can I be fair to men while protecting myself? How can I avoid spiralling into that thinking that all men are predatory jerks that need to be treated as such? It wasn’t easy. Every interaction was at least a little scary. One man happily stepped into my personal space and that felt crappy, so I stepped way back and tried to keep my defenses up. I think I did okay overall considering how shaken I have been…
Sometimes I think, “if only they understood how scary their behavior can be…”
The thing is, I have been stalked before. One of the most disturbing aspects of all this is the memories it brings up. Ugh.
As I like to end things on a bright note, I am happy that I got my donation into NPR today. 😀 Yay me.
In the days and weeks to come, I will be working to process what has happened, my memories about the past and all that. Hopefully it won’t spark too many nightmares.
–AngryGrayRainbows
Angry Gray Rainbows 
Being fair to men is all very well and good, but here’s the thing: do you have trouble being “fair to men” when they are treating you in a way that you find acceptable? As in, not being creepy, not making you feel uncomfortable, not giving off a weird “vibe”? If you do not feel this way around ALL men, anywhere, then you ARE being fair – it’s simply your instincts giving you a heads-up, about what is acceptable to you and what’s not. Trust your instincts, seriously – trust yourself. Every time someone makes you feel uncomfortable, remind yourself that it is entirely up to YOU what makes you feel comfortable and uncomfortable, and being “fair” has NOTHING to do with it. If you feel uncomfortable, you do not need to be “fair.” Really. Honest. You don’t need permission. Nobody else gets to dictate what is acceptable to you.
And when it comes to enforcing your personal boundaries, I know it’s so hard, and often so, so scary, but the effort is worth it. You did good with the guy on the phone, and you did good telling your co-worker. And you never know – if you stand up for yourself, and tell the other people around you what you’re doing, you might inspire someone else to do the same and maybe save them some harm someday. That’s what I try to remind myself of when I find trusting my instincts and speaking up about this stuff hard.
Honestly when I have an issue with personal space and “Back the fuck off” it’s usually with a woman. A lot of women assume they’re not sexually threatening, and therefore it’s ok to touch, hug, get close to, or even talk to someone who is sending obvious “go away” signals.
I agree whole-heartedly with lavendercat: trust your instincts. Don’t worry about what is fair. For those two instances, think of all the other benign interactions you’ve had with men and how they didn’t make you supremely uncomfortable.
The phone call guy was definitely creepy. And you’re right, chances are he didn’t know he was being creepy. I’ll admit in my younger days that I might have done a similar thing if I was too shy to approach her in public… I used to work with developmentally disabled adults and once when I took one guy with Downs to Target there was this cashier I thought was attractive and I had him give her my number. I was just too shy. Looking back, and knowing how some people react to the mentally disabled, that could have come off as creepy and weird.
But even if he was just innocently trying to meet you, you should have said to him, “Hey, this is making me extremely uncomfortable” so that if he didn’t realize it, then he would. You don’t need to spare his feelings because he wasn’t sparing yours when he decided to call. You protect yourself. That is first and foremost.
As far as the guy staring at the coffeeshop: again, just as easily could have been me. I’ve written about it (http://www.atchka.com/2009/09/preemptive-regret.html) and how it was a product of my shyness. I didn’t realize how creepy it was, but now I do.
If I were the guy in that situation and you said, “Hey, you’re making me uncomfortable” I would have felt terrible because making you uncomfortable was not my goal. Getting you to smile back at me was. But, again, you don’t need to think about what’s fair. If I’m making you uncomfortable, you have every right to shift that discomfort back to me.
There is no easy answer for these situations. There’s no script that will help you navigate awkward waters. You simply have to listen to that little voice and if that little voice is screaming, “CREEEEEEEEEEEPY!” then do something about it. Everyone has their own way of dealing with it. Deal with it in the way that you are most comfortable and, for the love of God, stop worrying about whether you’re being fair.
On this issue, be solipsistic.
Peace,
Shannon
Wow…all great comments, and anything I add would just be repeating.
Yes, definitely trust your instincts. And no, don’t worry about being fair.
And, consider carrying a stun gun with you, if you’ll be out after dark. I have one, and I take it with me when I walk the dog at night. Our neighborhood isn’t bad, but…you never know, right?
http://tinyurl.com/ministungun
Brightest Blessings,
Aud
Hmmm… lots of interesting stuff…
Regarding the “fair” bit… yeah, I see your points. What brought that concern to my mind was lots of stuff I’ve heard from men about women being “randomly” rude when they tried to hit on them and stuff. But the thing is… it’s not my job to explain it to someone who is scaring me or making me feel uncomfortable. It is the responsibility of the guy to take the experience and maybe get therapist or something and learn how to approach women in appropriate ways…
Thank you for the reminders.
Now… to deconstruct some more why my mind went to fairness (and I do this cuz when I make a mistake, I like to dig in and figure out how to do better next time… cuz ya know… I don’t want to worry about “fairness” when some dude is scaring me!)… it has a lot to do with my history. I’ve been abused and I’ve always feared becoming an abusor. I’ve focused on myself and that fear that I might become an abusor to such an extent that I completely missed the abusors in my life. I still tend to err in that direction and a) it really bothers me and b) it’s potentially dangerous… when I’m focusing so much on my own fears of my being “mean” or something that I completely miss the predatory behavior of someone else…
I think – why should I trust myself when both my biological parents (and my step parents) are all abusive nutjobs… so I must be a natural predator, right? It becomes far too easy to obsess on my own “fairness” and to completely ignore the creepy behavior of others…
Okay… so usually I can come up with better ways of looking at things, if I ask myself how I would advice a friend to deal with these this… hmmmmmmm….
I would tell her that it would be totally okay to err on the side of self-protection and that she can’t take all the responsibility on herself for these interactions. Besides, taking on someone else’s responsibility is never doing them a favor ultimately… it’s enabling them to remain ignorant or creepy or whatever else.
I have this internal vision of myself as being this all powerful abusor. My parents told me they saw me this way all the time… whether they really did or not, I dunno… it could’ve been just a mind-game tool they used to keep me under their micro-management… the earliest I remember them doing this was when I was four. Looking back… I was a quiet kid who liked to spend time alone with my books or toys. I was so sensitive that I’d cry if I saw someone step on a bug. I have no idea why my parents found it useful or necessary to teach me that view of myself as some all-powerful abusive monster. I did become a pretty darn angry teen (but even then I was no “monster”… I was just crabby and my rebellions consisted of listening to the devil’s music (anything modern – especially anything from MTV) and eating cookies occassionally for breakfast. No joke. I was so vanilla… yet “all powerful” and “evil.” Sigh…
Perhaps it is time to challenge that view of myself as all powerful and therefore responsible to “protect” men who are creeping me out?
I have a similar coping mechanism in that I tend to overcompensate for my fear of rejection by avoiding putting others on the spot. Like in high school, I never went down to the cafeteria to eat lunch because I thought that if I picked a random table to sit at and the other people at the table didn’t like me, then I would be putting THEM on the spot to tell me to move away. Its weird, backass thinking, but its how we deal with the most troubling aspects of our upbringing.
You’re overcompensating for your fear of abusing by being nicer than you want. By doing so, you put yourself in danger of being abused.
I was one of those people who said you shouldn’t be “rude” to strangers just because they look at you or say hi. By that, I didn’t mean that you shouldn’t ever be rude, but that if the guy at your cafe said, “Hi there, how are you” instead of staring for long periods of time, your red flags wouldn’t be going off and you probably would have said hi back. Rudeness is not the problem: unnecessary rudeness is.
Treating all men like potential threats is much, much different than treating people who set off your red flags as potential threats.
Your brain knows. Its reading subtle clues not even you are aware of. If you get a squicky feeling, then be assertive (or rude) and make your boundaries known.
And stop worrying about being an abusor… chances are that if you’re so hyperaware of your family history, then you are already taking steps to avoid repeating it. Awareness is half the battle.
Peace,
Shannon
Hmmm… Shannon… your reply caused me to realize something else…
I am often (especially with people who set off my alarms) way more friendly than I want to be, because I’m afraid of being an abusor to someone I don’t like cuz they set my “not safe!” alarms off…
For example… my creepy, horrible landlord. He’s a jerk and a moron. I noticed this early on, so I got super helpful and friendly… when on the inside I just wanted to demand that he never speak to me again unless it was absolutely necessary for business purposes.
What I’ve noticed with people like the landlord is that they pick up on my extra-super trying not to be abusive vibe via being too helpful and too friendly… and they seem to take up this stance of “YOU ARE SO ABUSIVE! I HAVE TO MICROMANAGE YOU OR YOU’LL BURN MY HOUSE DOWN OR SOMETHING!!”
Irony.
But still.. what the heck is that reaction about??
I ended up drawing the line with the landlord after he threw a tantrum on my porch because I disagreed with him on some issue. He scared the shit out of me. I then told him that moving forward he will have to talk to hubby about everything and anything. He responded by initially pretty much ignoring what I said…. then spending a few weeks honoring my boundary…. and then approaching me anyway to “discuss” the same crap he thew a tantrum about before and scared me about. WTF.
Where the heck does he get off thinking this is okay????? It boggles my mind.
I went to the extent of even refusing to sign the latest lease, so that he would have less reason to ever speak to me and instead go to hubby (who did sign the lease).
I suspect that the idiot landlord is again going to try to jump my boundaries… and I think that I am going to need to tell him how uncomfortable his behavior makes me and how inappropriate it is and stop trying to be so “nice.” Actually speaking up will be good practice… hopefully when the moment comes, I will be able to do so.
I am sad (literally teary when I think of it) to say that I have been beaten and raged at since birth by men… and sometimes in the moment I am so scared that all that I intended to do to protect my boundaries goes out the window and I become lil miss friendly again… and it just sucks.
In the meantime, I will try some visualization exercises to prepare myself for when it happens with the landlord… cuz in all likelihood, it will. This guy already has a 2 yr track record of trying to play games with me… I’m sure it’s not going to magically stop now without me doing anything to stop it.
Maybe when the lease is up, we can move elsewhere…. I fantasize about it all the time. But, ultimately, if I don’t learn to protect myself better, I could wind up with a similar situation with the next landlord…
Good on you! You do not owe being nice to a creepy dude at all! I agree that he probably doesn’t know what he’s doing, but you still don’t have to tolerate it! Many would be good to learn a lesson for you. Way to stand up for yourself!
Be careful with your landlord. If you piss him off, he may fuck with your living situation, so be prepared for the worst (he makes it miserable for you to live there). People don’t respond well to being confronted for their dumbfuckery.
But give a lot of thought to your approach. Its going to determine how he responds. This situation is a little different than a train stranger in that he is within your circle of acquaintances. He actually holds a little power over you, so its not like telling off some random dickhead.
Good luck. I’ll say a little prayer for your success.
Peace,
Shannon
I am so sorry you had to go through this. Does any person really expect to get a date that way? I think he wanted to scare you.
I understand about being too nice as well. I feel bad if I have to turn someone down. I think it is because I always hurt deeply from rejection and felt shamed. I think my husband should be a role model. He is not disrespectful but his own choice and comfort obviously come first.
He has been politely hit on by a few men and women and he always politely says he is married. That is how he indicates he is not interested in any further discussion of the matter. If someone said that to me I might still feel bad but that is because I am overly sensitive. I would be mad at myself for picking the wrong person. I wish I could be more like that. No drama on his end of it. Maybe I can!